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Permanent Bans
Permanent bans span all [o-t] servers for all time.

Spelled out: if you are banned in our TFC server you are also banned from our HL2:DM, Hidden, TF2, and Fortress Forever servers.

Permanent bans are normally perpetually everlasting, indefinite, постоянный, trval?, stadigvarande, selamanya, varanlegur, vakituinen, st?ndig, ?lland?, 永久的, and دائِم. Perm bans are VERY RARELY reversed. You can petition to have your ban reviewed here: Ban Review Request

Temporary Bans
If you have been temporarily banned your ban will be lifted when the time period is up. When you connect to our servers it will tell you if you have a perm or a temp ban. If you have a temp ban it will tell you the day it will be lifted. Some temp bans are longer then others. Bans are rarely reversed or lifted early. If a person does have a ban lifted early it is safe to say they have used their one and only chance. So, if you were temp banned for a day and ask for a review, you'll probably never be granted a review again. Use them wisely. You can petition to have your ban reviewed here: Ban Review Request

The Ban Review Process
Both Temp and Perm Bans can be reviewed. Very rarely are they reversed. If you are banned you'll see a message that says something like the following: "Perm Banned On 05/05/2009" or "Banned Until 05/10/2010". The former is a perm ban, the later is a temp ban. After seeing this message you can connect to our forums to see if your ban is reviewable by going to this page: Ban Review Request

It may take up to 15 minutes for this page to detect you are the banned player. Information from the game server takes some time to get to the forums. This page is the ONLY way to get your ban reviewed. If it says your ban is irrevocable then that is exactly what it is.

I was banned for "Clan Administrative Directive", what does that mean?
Your ban is permanent and absolutely irreversible. There is no other information available to non-clan members about Clan Administrative Directive bans.

My friend/brother/dog used my account and got me banned/muted/gagged, what can I do?
In short, get better friends.

However, explain to them that you have been banned/muted/gagged from The Old Timers clan server and your feelings about it. A real friend will reimburse you the cost of the game so you can purchase another steam-id.

New purchases for steam-ids and games can be found at

I was young, stupid, and didn't understand your rules, what can I do?
In many cases we will ban extra steam-ids of players that have already been banned. For these rare cases we may make an exception. If you purchase another steam-id for the game and let us know of your mistake you will probably be allowed to play on our servers with the new ID.

If you change a rule later that I was banned for may I be unbanned?

If I promise never to do what I was doing again my I be unbanned?
No. But we are sure that it will please the people of other servers where you have not been banned.

I'm banned and I want you to take a map I ported/created off your server, will you?
Even if I spent time porting the map to a game you run even though it wasn't my map to begin with?
How about if I argue about my constitutional right to copyright of the map?
No. And thanks to our friend-=NS=- Bear, here's why:

Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following:
(1) to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords;
(2) to prepare derivative works based upon the copyrighted work;
(3) to distribute copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending;
(4) in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and motion pictures and other audiovisual works, to perform the copyrighted work publicly;
(5) in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and pictorial, graphic, or sculptural works, including the individual images of a motion picture or other audiovisual work, to display the copyrighted work publicly; and
(6) in the case of sound recordings, to perform the copyrighted work publicly by means of a digital audio transmission.

Since you do not own the original copyright to the map application itself, you can not copyright your map and force us not to use it.

Does the [o-t] share it's ban lists with other servers?
Yes, we do. In fact, for our Hidden:Source servers there is a large community that participates in our TK ban list. The general ban list is shared with a few other admins per their request and is available for download.

Do you have examples of what not to say in a ban inquiry message?
Yes, we do:

Matthew, had his account and all other accounts from his home IP banned for the use of the word "nigger" (STEAM_0:1:10251773, STEAM_0:1:15036847, STEAM_0:1:11278202) (and one of our personal favorites) You are welcome to judge for yourself if Matt was the original source of the racist language or if it was his "friend":
I have reported to Steam and vBulletin because we have an issue. You do not have the right to promote my ID in a ban list publicly. You must keep my ID ban to yourself and yourself only. Especially since I have not done anything wrong. Until you can show that my ID was banned for my actions alone, I will accept my ID on the list. Until thin, I will not tolerate this unruly action and I was forced to confront these companies to get this problem solved because we could not. Maybe your clan should fix the rules again and make it possible to confront the bans in your ban list. Rules are not something you can play with.

I am sorry it had to be this way and I hope to fix our problem soon..

Next e-mail, after the above was posted here:

Can you reword this though before you put it up on the forum. I was mad at you and I needed to reword somethings.

Next e-mail, after we said "no."

Ok look. I think this is getting too personal. I will ask you one more time to please remove my Full name, E-mail address and Steam ID off of your forum. I do not want my information on your website. I will file a lawsuit if you do not comply. I asked my lawyer what I can do.

"If they are out of your state, there are serious but solvable problems. Yes, you will spend money for legal fees suing him and the site for slander, assuming you can prove that to a legal standard with credible evidence."

Slander is an untruthful oral (spoken) statement about a person that harms the person's reputation or standing in the community. Because slander is a tort (a civil wrong), the injured person can bring a lawsuit against the person who made the false statement.

You have untruthfully stated that I, Matthew ********* was banned for calling someone "nigger" I take this seriously and I would never say that word. I am only mad because you have my information and it is misleading to the people who read it.

Even you, saved in my e-mail address, said that I did not say that. That is not my STEAM ID. It is my friends. He is the one who said it. Now I am being injured from my reputation because my friend said a racial comment and I am to blame?

I will not tolerate this childish game any longer. If you dont remove my information off of your forum and what you untruthfully said I did, I will file a lawsuit.


(On a side note, before the above he did admit that it was his account, "Oh... I see. Racist comment... Thats stupid... Sorry about that. That was not me that said that anyway. Please unban me. It wont happen again. Sometimes I let freinds play the game sometimes. I am assuming it was one of them when they where at my house. I would never say anything like that. Only my friends say that... Most of my friends are black... " We never admitted his "friend" did anything, we pointed him to the FAQ on the subject, as well as the Steam Subscriber Agreement that says you are responsible for everything that happens with your account. You can imagine how many "friends' do this sort of thing with other people's accounts)

Bob (STEAM_0:0:9631830):
Shitty rules, and I will have your server removed from Steam soon enough. So, don't waste peoples time any more even opening them. Talk to your admins about NOT banning people because they are better than them. Makes your 'clan' look bad.
Philip Eichler:
... I clearly showed respect and manors by, stating, I meant, you lose, the r was an accident, if you look it's the next key over from e. If you want to ban me it's all good, I wouldn't want the competition either.
Pierre Aguillard:
... However, I think I'd rather stay banned from a server that is 5 years late on current tfc afairs.
Adam Hartzel:
First E-mail
... Along with many others cursing the 3 times but then coming right back. I curse 3 times and have yet to be allowed back on the server. THAT'S FINE, I GUESS I WILL BRING IT TO STEAMS ATTENTION THAT YOUR SERVER IS UNFAIR AND NOT REGULATED LIKE YOU STATE IT IS. Your attention to this matter is appreciated.

Second E-mail

... If I only got banned for a day I wouldn't have this issue, but since it does look like you are playing favorites then fine maybe STEAM does need to know what is going on? ...
killahax (STEAM_0:0:9472431) (in a public forum):
im banned from this server as well. i dont know why either. and the funny part is that all the good players are banned from this server as well. Funny how this server works.

Unban me thanks

Nerdian (STEAM_0:0:983817):
Ages ago I was playing on yalls server. When I got on there was 2 people already on. At this time there was rules on use of pigstick and nades. The person playing Hidden disregarded the rules. I told the person that they were breaking the rules. They told me they were not and they "MADE THE GOD DAMNED RULES YOU NOOB" as they put it. I responded "yeah right I highly doubt that." then was told i was banned. This was years ago and have not bothered sine until my friends bugged me about it. Thats all there is to say good day to you.
Derek ******* of Oshawa, Ontario, Canada (STEAM_0:1:2967457) (View Steam Profile) was banned a long time ago, but given a second chance. He continued to have problems controlling his language and was re-banned. His response to this was:
Hmm.. I'd like to know what I said on the server on 3/13/2008 please. That would be great. Honestly, I rarely play the game anymore. Having to deal with you peckerwoods all the fucking time because your such tight asses on bans takes to much time and effort to even give a shit about playing in your server. Actually, I don't even give a fuck what I said. You can take this as me asking you to change my ban to "Telling you to fuck yourself via e-mail because your a tight ass prick that needs to get a real life, and a new job". Thanks

Upon reading his example above he accused us of researching him and illegally displaying information about him (apparently he didn't read Matthew ********'s entry above):
Honestly, that is fine. Sorry for the rash comments, but please remove my name, and place of residence from your forums as that is unfair (and illegal if you do not ask me, as I DID NOT sign up for your forums). You can leave my steam_ID, and in-game name, because that is who I am in-game, but take out my personal information please. That will be my last request. Thanks in advance.

Best Regards,


Note: I also never signed my e-mails with my real name, so you "researching" the name from my hotmail account, or other accounts is not necessary.
We did inform him that his name clearly shows up as "Derek ******* &******>" in e-mails he sent to us and that he himself updated his own steam profile to give his location:
We especially like the "Our team strongly emphasis fun gameplay and sportsmanship" part of his profile.

Will you ban an entire Steam Group from your server?
This has happened in the past and could happen in the future. Here's how:

Situation #1: A group of previously banned players attempts to stir up trouble. Statistically we have found that approximately 2% of the playerbase are individuals cause problems and end up banned. (See the bottom of our LLama List for more information on percentages) Out of that 2% there are 5 or 6 per year that just can't let it go, they've been banned and have trouble dealing with it. Sometimes they create steam groups specifically designed around their hate, prejudice, and anger. After a certain percentage of players from a group are a problem the entire group is removed from our server.*

Situation #2: A group of individuals, previously formed, enters the server to cause trouble. There are groups here and there that intentional enter servers to cause trouble. When this occurs, to prevent further problems, the entire group may be removed from our environment.*

* For more information pleave review the Steamworks API that makes this possible. We thank Valve for listening to server administrators in creating this API and allowing us a quick and easy way to data mine group data.

Have you ever had to refute false information about a ban?
All the time. In many situations players who were banned will enter forums and lie about how or why they were banned. The great thing about having an automated system is the ability to show a player's exact record and prove they are nothing more then a liar. We're happy to prove these malcontents wrong where ever they crop up.

"Your rules are the reason game XYZ failed!! You killed the playerbase!"
The majority of individuals who purchase an online interactive multiplayer video game know that servers have different rules. We do not believe that there are droves of people who pay hard earned money for a game, play it once, don't like one server and then decide to throw it out.

There are other servers out there with no rules. They are very popular. They are more popular then we are in many cases. We do not seek to control them. We do not seek to take their playerbase. We do not deride them, attack them, hate them, or dismiss them. We believe, as a whole, they are vital to keeping games alive, even keeping our environment alive. They provide the alternative. Players choose where they want to be based on those alternatives. Sometimes they choose us, sometimes they choose them.

People do not stop playing a game because of one server. They stop playing because they don't find an environment that fits them. We provide an environment for a certain group of adults and their families. We propose you do the same. If people like your idea and your server then you'll be much more popular then we are. If they don't, then they've made their choice and you know where you and the cheese stand.

Why are your banning rules so strict?
We don't believe they are strict, we believe they are practical. We run game servers with limited slots. We have over 30 clan members. Each server is full most nights. We have a great group of regulars that we play with. There are thousands of people that play Team Fortress games (TFC/FF/TF2). If you can't follow the rules you will be banned and we can get back to playing with our friends. We do not have room in the server for people who cause trouble or are high maintenance.

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